《经济学人》昨天发了个很有意思的文章,谈共党元老和熹宗的拉锯战

个人觉得<Economist>对熹宗的预见性十分精准。大概是13年年初的时候吧,很多人还对熹宗有期待,觉得把四处唱红歌的薄熙来给按死了,中国有希望搞政治改革了。很多海外媒体也分析了熹宗他爹当年的立场,认为熹宗将会成为一个有实权的中立偏改革派。
 
只有<经济学人>在那个时候提出:习将成为中国30年来最大的独裁者,极权程度和政治形态将逼近毛的时期。
 
那时候我还跟我美国boss聊过这个话题,给他讲过习仲勋当年在胡和邓之间的角色,还觉得熹宗能掌握体制内的权利是好事,总比政令不出中南海强。
  
结果…………结果就是幼稚的我终于给经济学人跪了。
  
重点总结:
1. 目前没有党内元老公开反对熹宗,但是显然熹宗的做法会触及他们的利益。
2. 然而比起军队反叛和民众推翻,显然最有可能也是唯一的可能就是党内元老势力联合将熹宗拉下马,然而现在还没有迹象,除非习近平短期内“羞辱”党内元老势力到他们不得不翻脸。
3. 如果此次大选党内元老势力无法将熹宗拉下马,那么以后就更难了。
  
文章看不懂的自己google翻译吧。

Song ping was too young in the 1980s to have been counted among the “immortals”—a jocular term used at the time to describe Communist Party veterans who were playing a big role in politics despite having retired. Perhaps he deserves the title now. At 105 years old, he is still going strong, making him the doyen of the 20 or so former members of the Politburo Standing Committee—the apex of party power—who are still alive. Those fit enough are expected to appear at a five-yearly party congress that starts on October 16th. How much do such elders matter today?

Like his fellow retired grandees, Mr Song seldom speaks in public. So when video footage of him addressing a charitable foundation emerged online in September, it caused a stir on Chinese social media and overseas Chinese news sites. Some tried to portray it as a rebuke to China’s leader, Xi Jinping. They quoted Mr Song saying that the only path forward was “reform and opening”—bywords for the economic liberalisation launched by Deng Xiaoping in 1979, which has regressed under Mr Xi. That is probably wishful thinking. The footage provides no evidence that Mr Song uttered those words. Even if he did, Mr Xi has used the same phrase. Mr Song is known as a staunch conservative.

Still, the episode is a timely reminder of the potential for former leaders to cause trouble for Mr Xi, who is expected to be given a third five-year term as party chief right after the congress, in breach of retirement norms. Public criticism from an elder such as the widely respected former prime minister, Zhu Rongji (pictured at the congress in 2017), could be damaging, especially just before a congress—although Mr Zhu is 93 and rumoured to be unwell.

There is no sign of a direct challenge to Mr Xi. But as he continues to support Russia over its disastrous war in Ukraine, and refuses to abandon his “zero-covid” policy that is crippling China’s economy, many members of the elite now have reason to be deeply unhappy about their own, and the country’s, circumstances. Should Mr Xi ever find himself under political attack, it is more likely to involve the elders rather than a military coup or a mass uprising, according to many academics, diplomats and others who study Chinese politics.

One such expert is Joseph Fewsmith of Boston University. “I assume there are a lot of people at very high levels who really don’t like Xi Jinping, and covid policy is the obvious attack point,” says Mr Fewsmith. “It doesn’t strike me as out of the realm of possibility that there could be a number of retired leaders who might want to coalesce and say something. But logistically it’s very hard to do.”

For more than three decades after Mao Zedong’s death in 1976, party elders wielded considerable power. Between 1982 and 1992 they sat on a formal advisory body. After that was scrapped, some were still allowed to see the party’s most important secret documents. They regularly met foreign dignitaries. And they gathered annually with incumbent leaders in the beach resort of Beidaihe to discuss policy and personnel decisions. Deng remained hugely influential at least until a year or two before he died in 1997 at the age of 92.

Since Mr Xi took power in 2012, however, he has curtailed many of the elders’ perks, anxious to avoid the same fate as his predecessor, Hu Jintao, who suffered almost constant meddling from his own predecessor, Jiang Zemin. Mr Jiang (whose early rule had been overshadowed by the elderly Deng) stepped down as party leader in 2002 but remained military chief until 2004 and continued to pull strings from behind the scenes long afterwards.

Mr Xi made it clear he would not tolerate any such interference. In what was widely seen as a warning to Mr Jiang in 2015, the party’s mouthpiece, the People’s Daily, advised retired leaders that “once people leave, the tea cools down”. It accused some elders of trying to promote allies to prolong their influence, and urged them to “adjust their mentality...so as not to fall into endless troubles”. Mr Xi’s anti-corruption campaign has targeted several allies of Messrs Hu and Jiang. Most striking was the downfall of Zhou Yongkang, who in 2015 became the first former Standing Committee member to be convicted of corruption. The threat of similar probes into other elders—or their family members—remains a powerful deterrent.

Under Mr Xi, party elders are thought to live under close surveillance, and to have to arrange public appearances and meetings with other senior figures through the party’s General Office, which is currently run by a close ally of Mr Xi. Many of the most influential elders are now too old to be socially active anyway. Mr Jiang is 96. He has long been rumoured to be gravely ill.

And yet in one sign of continuing concern about the elders Mr Xi tightened restrictions on them further this year. In May the party’s Organisation Department, which manages personnel, published new rules demanding that retired officials, especially those who held leadership positions, should not “arbitrarily discuss” policy or spread “politically negative remarks”.

Mr Xi may have allowed the elders a limited say in this month’s leadership shuffle (several Politburo members are due to retire). For its congresses in 2007 and 2012 the party conducted straw polls of 200 candidates for Politburo membership. In 2017, however, candidates were instead selected after face-to-face interviews with incumbents. Mr Xi also sought opinions from 57 leading figures, including elders, state media said. Elders thus retained their right to express views, but Mr Xi gained more leeway as he saw them individually and denied them a chance to join forces or vote, says a Chinese academic who studies the party’s politics.

The party has not identified the 57 people consulted in 2017. But they are thought to correspond closely with a body called the Standing Committee of the Praesidium, which had 42 members at the most recent congress, including all retirees from the Politburo Standing Committee. It plays a largely ceremonial role at the congress, overseeing the agenda and election of a new Central Committee.

Mr Xi will probably have used the same system this year, as it was hailed a success in 2017, the Chinese academic says. That means elders will almost certainly be unable to block Mr Xi’s third term but could still influence the new Standing Committee’s membership by nominating protégés. Mr Xi could ignore them. But for the moment, he must be wary of humiliating elders to a point where they feel obliged to speak out, whatever the consequences. By the next congress in 2027, that should be a lesser concern as several more senior elders may have passed on.
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分享 2022-10-11

37 个评论

只是引用了墙内某听床师的一家之言。翻译成中文和其他自媒体不分上下。
>>只是引用了墙内某听床师的一家之言。翻译成中文和其他自媒体不分上下。


谁的一家之言?
回首十年前,很多人都知道习近平是个饭桶

他们没有预料到的是习近平竟然能掌握这么大的权力,各种小组,到处派巡视组,到年代大家都要向他一个人汇报,大搞个人崇拜没有受到阻力,那么多傻逼政策没有受到抵制


习近平应该就是撒旦本尊。
2017人事是征求了57个人意见决定的(这个貌似有公开报道),但他们只有建议权,最后完全是习亲自批准的。

这次哪怕部分或者大部分老头们不支持习连,但习要硬上。老头们没法阻止,老头们最多用自己影响力扶持非习派几个常委,比如胡春华。

===================

这个观点和蔡霞的比较接近,其实也从近期新闻里能体现出来,只有李克强敢公开唱反调,别的老头只能搞点小动作,并且内网根本搜不到。 江泽民照片出来膜蛤的人基本不知道,温家宝发文章都要跑澳门小报了。


当然,还是不知道他哪来的这么大权力,靠着江胡妥协上台结果把江胡温王的人都抓的抓,贬的贬
这篇文章没什么新东西,他说的无非以下几点

1.习近平反对老人干政
2.老人被严密监视,很难发声
3.党内高层对习近平不满,但很难做什么

以上几点不论是不是事实,都是在外网上广泛传播讨论并有一定认可度的事情,这篇文章没有提出什么新东西
fk007 观察
温家宝发忆母文,含沙射影温柔地进谏了一下,就被全网删贴,干儿子许家印被整得死去活来。
任志强仗着自己也是红二代,太子党,毫不客气地撕开了皇帝的新衣,现在得坐牢到死。
朱容基没忍住侧面表达了一下看法,马上就来个退休领导干部不得妄议中央的制度。
这还不算羞辱啊?
再不爆发包子就真要万岁了。
且看吧,这几天山雨欲来风满楼,几家欢乐几家愁。
>>2017人事是征求了57个人意见决定的(这个貌似有公开报道),但他们只有建议权,最后完全是习亲自批准...


但按照党内伦理,到站下车是常态,到站不下车才是反常态;
>>这篇文章没什么新东西,他说的无非以下几点1.习近平反对老人干政2.老人被严密监视,很难发声3.党内高...


我觉得这就是说,不会有啥surprise了 ,大家洗洗睡吧。不过现在NYT,AP,WSJ基本也都是这个观点。
熙来 回复 fk007 观察
>>温家宝发忆母文,含沙射影温柔地进谏了一下,就被全网删贴,干儿子许家印被整得死去活来。朱容基没忍住侧面...


请问朱镕基什么时候侧面的看法?
>>我觉得这就是说,不会有啥surprise了 ,大家洗洗睡吧。不过现在NYT,AP,WSJ基本也都是这...


外网主流媒体一直是这个观点
党内元老不公开反对,是因为大家还是要顾及秩序,不守规矩就要靠守规矩弄下去。如果真的到了守规矩弄不下去的地步,肯定有其他方案去解决,那个时候就难看了,对后续依法治国也有影响,所以不到万不得已,我不觉得有任何党内大佬会违反规定去和一个无赖耍无赖
>>党内元老不公开反对,是因为大家还是要顾及秩序,不守规矩就要靠守规矩弄下去。如果真的到了守规矩弄不下去...


能见到他的人里一个金载圭都没有,真让习畜生言中了,竟无一个是男儿
>>回首十年前,很多人都知道习近平是个饭桶他们没有预料到的是习近平竟然能掌握这么大的权力,各种小组,到处...

我觉得你是在侮辱撒旦
撒旦是非常邪恶,但能力在众神中也是数一数二的
包子只有邪恶
经济学人2013年也是引用中国教授的观点。人大教授任剑涛18大前就预言了习的政治水平。他说18大后中国政治进人毫无生气的二十年。说习近平没有人格魅力,习近平 薄熙来 王岐山是红卫兵,胡春华,周强,孙政才和他自己是红小兵,红卫兵红小兵最大的特点就是不讲规矩。这些人没有现代观念,都是再毛泽东无产阶级继续革命的教育成长起来的。
可以去推特上看他的演讲
https://twitter.com/shaochengcd/status/1578748564443799552?s=46&t=C4JsY-XV06nzxKMk8QcVcw
>>2017人事是征求了57个人意见决定的(这个貌似有公开报道),但他们只有建议权,最后完全是习亲自批准...
如果老头这么怂,那李克强背后的力量就是军队了
>>经济学人2013年也是引用中国教授的观点。人大教授任剑涛18大前就预言了习的政治水平。他说18大后中...


多谢,去看看~
>>我觉得你是在侮辱撒旦撒旦是非常邪恶,但能力在众神中也是数一数二的包子只有邪恶


接受批评。

“包子只有邪恶”,说得非常好。就叫他 平包邪妖
>>党内元老不公开反对,是因为大家还是要顾及秩序,不守规矩就要靠守规矩弄下去。如果真的到了守规矩弄不下去...

话语权都没有的人,何来盖牌的能力?还是坐等普特勒倒台更靠谱。他一倒,地球上的所有毒菜者都要跟着完蛋。
>>多谢,去看看~


完整演讲在YouTube
https://youtu.be/sd5O9tgoVN0
现在的元老本来就没多大实力 
人走茶凉 
真以为自己是邓小平呢? 
想不想要新器官了
>>党内元老不公开反对,是因为大家还是要顾及秩序,不守规矩就要靠守规矩弄下去。如果真的到了守规矩弄不下去...


那就要看元老到底有没有能量了,没能量守规矩的结局很可能就是变成西朝鲜习家王朝,元老们子孙后代都得给他做狗。
>>那就要看元老到底有没有能量了,没能量守规矩的结局很可能就是变成西朝鲜习家王朝,元老们子孙后代都得给他...

我觉得吧,大部分元老d额子孙后代都未必在国内。不是有个笑话吗,如果美国所有中学和大学在4月份开个家长会,那人大就开不成了。
>>我觉得吧,大部分元老d额子孙后代都未必在国内。不是有个笑话吗,如果美国所有中学和大学在4月份开个家长...


那是必定的,虽然但是……这货现在可是敢去外国绑票的。国内的物质资源和性资源,也不是元老后代随便能放弃的,高华有大量在国内赚钱花天酒地的需要。
这个文章出来之后第二天我就在品葱发过:链接
這文章論述跟我的判斷一致,黨內力量對比失衡了,皕都捏著各位元老、名宿的蛋蛋呢,他們有什麼能力把皕搞下去?
最多能做的就是為自己的門閥爭取自己人入常罷了。
>>這文章論述跟我的判斷一致,黨內力量對比失衡了,皕都捏著各位元老、名宿的蛋蛋呢,他們有什麼能力把皕搞下...


被捏蛋蛋的元老们联合起来,拼一把,解放蛋蛋解放裆
3.不同意。基本上现在所有人都认为20大是阻击包子的最后机会,但我感觉事情可能正好相反,20大只是反习的开始。感觉这次最有可能的一个结果是包子连任,但权力被一定程度上制衡。这个应该是有迹可循的,从今年4月以后国务院权力回归应该会是一个延续的趋势,军队支持党中央集体领导的表态更是一个明确的信号,20大改变过去一人独大回归集体领导可能才是真正隐藏的暗线。借由阻习连任将党内矛盾公开化,并撼动习的权力,借此在20大人事做局。

党内给习安排的下场可能不是简单的到站下车。而现在的习明显已经处在疯狂的边缘,无论是清零还是俄乌问题,他已经绑死在这两件必死的事情上面了,而更严重的经济、财政总危机可能也就是1年内的事情,这几件事都是避无可避的天坑,如果没有他背这个锅,整个党都得陪葬。而最近一系列动作看起来就是在通过权斗把他逼上绝路,让他无法在清零与俄乌问题上回头(会见普京、人日的文章为典型),等到经济、财政危机爆发,人心糜烂无法收拾的时候,借由提前完成的人事布局,正式开启清算。
第三点我同意。不过无论习畜生登不登基都改变不了我反习的立场。
>>请问朱镕基什么时候侧面的看法?


不存在朱镕基发表侧面看法的事情,不过是今年3月老灯一伙人放出的另一份听床消息。朱在十九大开幕时因为反应迟钝没给习鼓掌,结果半个月后朱专门找了个机会大谈十九大与习的重要意义,成为十九大之后第一个公开挺习的元老,这都有新闻报道的。朱镕基是最强调中央集权的领导人,他在台上那些年干的最多的就是扩大中共集权和行政干预司法,纯纯的救党总理。至于什么拍桌子骂习,全是听床师胡诌的,他之前做手术躺床上都多少年了,18年他去看袁宝华都是几个人搀着他架着他走路的(有视频)。

所以这些整天政变倒习的葱油,谣言听了一个又一个,逻辑分析的基础来自大量足以被证伪的谣言,你说他们还能分析清楚个什么问题呢。
>>3.不同意。基本上现在所有人都认为20大是阻击包子的最后机会,但我感觉事情可能正好相反,20大只是反...


放屁。你这是在为习连任后那些不支持不看好习连任的人找余地呢。习连任后绝不可能死于国内人之手或者被国内势力赶下台,而只能是被外部势力打翻。整个共匪集团内部以及广大中国人没有人有胆子和能力推翻他。
>>放屁。你这是在为习连任后那些不支持不看好习连任的人找余地呢。习连任后绝不可能死于国内人之手或者被国内...

个人觉得,20是差不多是最后党内通过内部,不影响老百姓日常生活和国际关注的情况下,自己人把习近平弄下去的机会。否则之后习肯定会越来越极端偏执,民生严重受到影响,对内革命或者对外战争的几率都大大增加,再有机会把把习弄下去,可能就的是类似经过文革那样的运动,或者俄乌战争那样的混乱了。

那时候具体是谁用什么手段把他弄下去都可能,因为本质上弄掉他的是大势和他自己。俗称:不作不死。
习之所以能够拿捏各个元老,而不是像80年代那样总书记被元老们拿捏,原因可能非常简单:就是因为这三十年来元老和元老的儿子们没有一个不贪,没有一个不被牢牢抓着把柄的。而80年代的非市场化环境下的元老们还真没有啥经济上的把柄能被人抓着
>>经济学人2013年也是引用中国教授的观点。人大教授任剑涛18大前就预言了习的政治水平。他说18大后中...

他说20年,这说明他是现在网上的所谓挺包派!这算是挺包派的始祖了!😁
>>他说20年,这说明他是现在网上的所谓挺包派!这算是挺包派的始祖了!😁


他现在还是清华大学教授,据说也是习的智囊。
>>习之所以能够拿捏各个元老,而不是像80年代那样总书记被元老们拿捏,原因可能非常简单:就是因为这三十年...

关键他自己也贪,他能撇清跟他姐姐的吗?
>>放屁。你这是在为习连任后那些不支持不看好习连任的人找余地呢。习连任后绝不可能死于国内人之手或者被国内...


猜测而已。但有一点是肯定的,习连任后党内反对力量不会就此消失,也不会束手待毙。而以习的性格,到了现在这个地步再妥协根本没可能。实际上党内反习的力量真正形成合力也就是今年的事,即使一个平头百姓都看的出以不到一年的时间推翻习5年时间的部署,难度有多大。但为什么还是要冒着无法回头的风险出手做这件看似不可能完成的事?我不认为做到那种位置的人会有杀身成仁,飞蛾扑火的兴趣。这种事情没有预案和后手是根本不可想象的。
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《经济学人》发了个很有意思的文章,谈共党元老和熹宗的拉锯战

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