当今社会道德水平比过去低吗?

时常有人说,现在社会道德堕落,道德滑坡。比如说不扶老人,见死不救,互相伤害等等。似乎意味着过去中国人的道德水准更高。毛左所谓过去指改革开放前30年,传统文化迷恋者所谓过去则指传统社会,49年之前或者辛亥革命之前。

我以为,当今中国社会道德水平确实不高,但却比传统社会和改开前更高。

传统社会主要是熟人交往,人际交往靠儒家礼义维护,当然会相邦助。但行走江湖之上,也是互害互骗一样互不信任,互害互骗。恶劣程度比现在百倍甚之。明代有本书《骗经》,里面的案例很说明问题。只不过过去走江湖的人是少数,发生率较小。而现在市场经济,陌生人交往为主,漠不关心和互害的发生率更高而已,信息社会传播速度更快范围更广。

毛左所谓前三十年道德水平更高,人们互助更多也是局限在一个范围内,所谓“人民内部”。造反派、革命群众对阶级敌人、“坏分子”干的那些伤天害理的事不比现在更恶劣?“人民内部”之间的互助,是建立在对另一部分人的残酷迫害之上的。

批评现实要客观。总而言之,中国人的道德水准虽然还亟待提高,但无论如何比过去高,比过去更文明。只是发生率高了。而发生率高正是因为儒家“亲疏有别”仍是中国社会的主流价值观,支配着人们的行为,却不适应现代市场经济的大规模陌生人交往的变化。加之信息传播速度迅速和范围广。
不知道你所说的过去指的是什么时候。假如指的是1949年以前,作为50后我没有资格说话。如果指的是1949年以后的时段,那么就可以以文革作为分界线。文革前,道德败坏主要发生在上层社会,败坏风气没有污染民间的平民社会,这也是毛粉毛左坚持认为毛泽东时代社会风气好的原因。确实那时是夜不闭户路不拾遗。但这不是中共的功劳,只是那时社会的底层人们秉承着一个正常社会所具有的良好道德淳朴风气而已。但中共的上层就已经腐烂了。毛泽东所以能够成功发动文革,有那么多人追随他,是因为文革是以揭露上层社会官员的腐败生活作为突破口的。那铺天盖地的大字报中,许多内容都是揭露官员们的腐化生活。这引起了人们巨大的愤怒。这样的官员反对毛泽东,当然应该被打倒在地还要踏上一只脚。于是毛泽东成功地发动了文革。人们对各级官员的不满令毛泽东能够做到指哪打哪。然而毛泽东打倒各级官员,他的统治却不能缺乏官员的支持,因此他要用其他人填补被打倒的官员位置。关键的是毛泽东打倒官员的手段令中国人失去了最宝贵的道德:真诚。其实自延安整风及49年后的各种运动,已经把上层官员的真诚整掉了。文革则把不真诚的风气从上层殿堂吹到了民间社会。人们夜不闭户路不拾遗是好道德的表现,但并不代表人们的真诚。真正的真诚应该是当人们面对说出事实真相有可能对自己不利时,依然能说出真相,敢于承担说出真相的后果。文革则把中国人宝贵的道德毁掉了。人们相互之间不能真诚相待,同事之间,邻里之间,甚至夫妻之间,家庭内部,都无法相互真诚。试想,当人们不真诚,面对一个人,即使表面上都是正能量,你怎么知道他的内心所想?一个人正举着拳头宣誓永远忠诚党的事业,天知道他是不是正盘算着今晚去哪里泡妞。人一旦不诚实,多么可怕。这就是为什么毛泽东在世时,所有人都禅忌着他的权威,也都相互提防着,不敢轻举妄动,毛一蹬腿就出事的原因。当时围着他站一圈的人可都是相互牵着手的。毛不得不重新选用他的干部,但无论是新提拔的工农兵干部还是从牛栏战战兢兢爬出来的老干部,这时都已经没有真诚可言了。整个社会都是戴着相同面具却不知道内心的人。另外,毛泽东虽然借反对干部腐化打倒了一批干部,但他却没有取消干部的特权。这可以从他回复李庆霖的那封信中的无奈看得出来。他甚至制止了江青把打击走后门的内容塞进批林批孔运动中。走后门本来只是高层官员特有的权力,然而文革则把这权力大众化平民化了。不论大小人物,有权力就能办事。什么是走后门?走后门就是滥用权力,不管是为自己还是为他人,本质就是利用手中权力办不允许的事。毛泽东一句走后门也有好人就把江青的心思堵死了。一开始走后门只是为人情,随后就是为利益了。全民走后门就意味着人们,平民们不再认为走后门是坏事,走后门很正常,应该的。所有干部都是从底层往上走的,这就意味着每个官员在他还没进入上升行列时就已经具有滥用权力的基因。加上所有人自小就培养而成的不真诚,说假话不脸红的能力,这官场腐化就成为不可避免的规律了。现在社会上的各种各样的造假,假货,坑人,诈骗,其实都是官员造假说假话在各行各业的映射而已。中共治下的社会就是一个一对多的假象映射空间。就如河南的村镇银行,当它向存户许诺高息时,怎么知道他不是正盯着你的本金。而对那些有权随意改变人们出行红码的人,怎么知道他们和银行间没有任何关系?
NZRdlClr5 嗆聲完了改回來了
在『如何定義過去和現在』之前,先定義『道德』好嗎?
什麼是道德?
有的人說大義滅親是大義,至少共產黨是說這是高尚的,既然大義滅親這個詞是自古就有,古人大概也認為是高尚的。但也有人覺得滅親就是對家人的背叛,是敗壞的。那這種行為是道德的嗎?
有人說父母決定子女的人生,說『為了你好』,出於一種希望子女過上更好生活的善意,是父愛母愛,是高尚的。也有人說這是對子女自由的侵害,可能讓子女遺憾終生,甚至對子女思想行程也有不好的影響,是敗壞的。那這到底是道德還不道德?
有人說一個同性戀深櫃和不知真相的異性結婚生子,是孝順父母讓家族不會斷後,是高尚的。也有人說是對伴侶的欺騙,撒謊當然是敗壞的。所以這是道德不道德了?
你倒是告訴我,什麼是道德?
有人說法律是應該被遵守的,所以在座的各位品蔥人都在翻牆,翻牆違法,是敗壞的。也有人說惡法不必被遵守,品蔥人追求自由,是高尚的
什麼是道德了?
再說道德水準是會隨著時代改變的
女德在幾百年前還真是一本正經的德呢,現在再被拿出來就被當成糟粕,連整天噴糞的共匪都不想聞
所以你倒告訴我,什麼是道德?你要說的是哪種道德、誰的道德?
第三新索多玛 反对崇华媚外
同意@NZRdlClr5 的观点:
在『如何定義過去和現在』之前,先定義『道德』好嗎?

毛粉所谓“毛时代道德高尚”,其实是“毛时代符合我们的道德观”,本质上和苍蝇喜欢厕所是一回事。请问毛时代山东女人吃饭上不上桌?这是一个很简单的推断:如果毛时代山东女人能上桌吃饭,那么现在这种现象应该早就成了政治正确才对,不应该有那么多人为之辩护。毛粉说“毛时代道德高尚”,恰恰是因为他们反对女人上桌吃饭,女人上了桌在他们看来就是道德败坏的体现。
当然有的朋友不是毛粉也会被诱骗,比如高票觉得毛时代夜不闭户。但我反而不觉得这能证明什么。一个地方就是道德再怎么高尚,一万个人里有9999个好人,就出一个坏蛋不过分吧?就凭这一个坏蛋你都不敢夜不闭户。
没有小偷不是因为道德高尚,而是因为政府权力太大导致人不敢出来偷。哪怕政府把所有的精力都用来建集中营,它捎带着也能抓到许多小偷。毛时代其实就是这样的。到处都有联防队抓反革命,小偷鬼鬼祟祟的行动,联防队一看肯定是国民党余孽,抓了再说。
倒不如说,中国人对高压社会的偏好本身就是道德低下的体现。恰恰就是因为社会已经完全烂掉了,所以才只能把希望寄托在公权力整顿社会上面,至于说公权力拿到这么多权力之后会干多少坏事,顾不了那么多,反正天塌了有大个子顶着。

当然接着推下去你就会发现,显然49年以前中国人道德水平也很低,不然没法解释为什么区区30年会发生这么天翻地覆的变化。但那时的事情我们基本只能查古书了。而古书是士大夫们写的,士大夫最爱写的就是自己圈子里那些事,很少提及底层的人相食。所以皇汉们挖掘出来的那些东西充其量只能证明中国的士大夫阶层还没那么糟糕。另外也别高看皇汉们的道德观,他们还觉得张巡吃人吃的好吃的对呢。
简单来讲就是:古中国泾渭分明的分成两个世界,底层世界是完全互害的丛林社会,而士大夫阶层出于“仓廪实而知礼节”的缘故,拥有相对于中国底层高的多的道德水平——当然也只是相对——皇汉其实就是片面的挖掘这一部分人的故事来给自己脸上贴金。
毛时代的本质不是什么“马克思破坏中国优秀的传统文化”,马克思这个货虽然在经济和历史方面完全是信口胡柴,但他真没有特别敌视文化产品。毛时代恰恰是中国的底层流氓对于中国最后一点点良知的总清算。

至于现在,有的人觉得现在互帮互助的好现象还是增加了,也有人觉得底层互害的现象一点不比过去少。这其实并不矛盾,因为这就是入世以后,在大城市中,当年士大夫那个“仓廪实而知礼节”的环境又回来了。但是这是不稳固的。什么时候习近平不想跟外国玩了,中国大城市这一点点残存的道德就会消灭在“人民战争的汪洋大海”中。
毛左口中的道德高,指只要扣上帽子,强奸杀人吃人肉都不算犯罪
史上最强小学生 哪怕小学生,也能做皇帝~
民间的私德到这个年代应该来说,应该随着经济发展差不多该到顶了,随着之后经济转向下滑,道德水平应该会开始下降了。
公权力的道德水平应该在大战疫(跟打烂香港几乎同一时间)之前是顶点(洼地中的顶点,笑),开始搞战疫以后就开始下滑,更加无所顾忌的sm韭菜
wwwtttlll 没介绍
现在的道德水平要比以前高,就在10几年前活埋女婴的事在农村还会发生,
Jimmychoo 新注册用户
个人感觉现在的人道德水平要比过去搞,毕竟物质方面比过去丰富多了,仓禀足而知礼仪
weibao 离开一段时间
个人觉得,总的来说过去不如现在。比如,如果过去可以前到三百多年前的话,我仅取英国海军大臣george anson「环球游记」里面的一段话(类似的还有很多,可以自行观摩)。人家在广东短暂停留了一段时间,就获得了极为不好的印象。

    Indeed, thus much may undoubtedly be asserted, that in artifice, falsehood, and an attachment to all kinds of lucre many of the Chinese are difficult to be paralleled by any other people. But then the particular application of these talents, and the manner in which they operate on every emergency, are often beyond the reach of a foreigner's penetration: so that though it may be surely concluded that the Chinese had some interest in thus amusing the commodore, yet it may not be easy to assign the individual views by which they were influenced. And that I may not be thought too severe in ascribing to this nation a fraudulent and selfish turn of temper, so contradictory to the character given of them in the legendary accounts of the Romish missionaries, I shall here mention an extraordinary transaction or two which I conceive will be some kind of confirmation of what I have advanced.

    When the commodore lay first at Macao, one of his officers, who had been extremely ill, desired leave of him to go on shore every day on a neighbouring island, imagining that a walk upon the land would contribute greatly to the restoring of his health. The commodore would have dissuaded him from it, suspecting the tricks of the Chinese, but the officer continued importunate, in the end the boat was ordered to carry him thither. The first day he was put on shore he took his exercise and returned without receiving any molestation or even seeing any of the inhabitants; but the second day he was assaulted just after his arrival by a great number of Chinese who had been hoeing rice in the neighbourhood, and who beat him so violently with the handles of their hoes that they soon laid him on the ground incapable of resistance; after which they robbed him, taking from him his sword, the hilt of which was silver, his money, his watch, gold-headed cane, snuff-box, sleeve buttons, and hat, with several other trinkets. In the meantime, the boat's crew, who were at a little distance and had no arms of any kind with them, were incapable of giving him any relief; till at last one of them flew on the fellow who had the sword in his possession, and wresting it out of his hands, drew it, and with it was preparing to fall on the Chinese, some of whom he could not have failed of killing. But the officer, perceiving what he was about, immediately ordered him to desist, thinking it more prudent to submit to the present violence than to embroil his commander in an inextricable squabble with the Chinese Government by the death of their subjects: which calmness in this gentleman was the more meritorious as he was known to be a person of an uncommon spirit and of a somewhat hasty temper. By this means the Chinese speedily recovered the possession of the sword, when they perceived it was prohibited to be made use of against them, and carried off their whole booty unmolested. No sooner were they gone than a Chinese on horseback, very well dressed, and who had the air and appearance of a gentleman, came down to the seaside and, as far as could be understood by his signs, seemed to censure the conduct of his countrymen and to commiserate the officer, being wonderfully officious to assist in getting him on board the boat: but notwithstanding this behaviour, it was shrewdly suspected that he was an accomplice in the theft, and time fully made out the justice of those suspicions.

    When the boat returned on board, and the officer reported what had passed to the commodore, he immediately complained of it to the mandarine who attended to see his ship supplied; but the mandarine coolly observed that the boat ought not to have gone on shore, promising, however, that if the thieves could be found they should be never give himself any trouble in searching them out. However, a considerable time afterwards, when some Chinese boats were selling provisions to the Centurion, the person who had wrested the sword from the Chinese came with eagerness to the commodore to assure him that one of the principal thieves was then in a provision boat alongside the ship; and the officer who had been robbed, viewing the fellow on this report, and well remembering his face, orders were immediately given to seize him; and he was accordingly secured on board the ship where strange discoveries were now made.

    This thief on his being first apprehended expressed so much fright in his countenance that it was feared he would have died on the spot; the mandarine too who attended the ship had visibly no small share of concern on the occasion. Indeed he had reason enough to be alarmed, since it was soon apparent that he had been privy to the whole robbery; for the commodore declaring that he would not deliver up the thief, but would himself order him to be shot, the mandarine immediately put off the magisterial air, with which he had at first pretended to demand him, and begged his release in the most abject manner. But the commodore seeming to be inflexible, there came on board, in less than two hours' time, five or six of the neighbouring mandarines, who all joined in the same entreaty, and with a view of facilitating their suit, offered a large sum of money for the fellow's liberty. Whilst they were thus soliciting it was discovered that the mandarine, the most active amongst them, and who was thence presumed to be most interested in the event, was the very gentleman who rode up to the officer just after the robbery and who pretended to be so much displeased with the villainy of his countrymen. On further inquiry it was also found that he was the mandarine of the island, and that he had by the authority of his office ordered the peasants to commit that infamous action. This easily accounted for his extraordinary vigilance in the present conjuncture; since, as far as could be collected from the broken hints which were casually thrown out, it seemed that he and his brethren, who were every one privy to the transaction, were terrified with the fear of being called before the tribunal at Canton, where the first article of their punishment would be the stripping them of all they were worth; though their judges (however fond of inflicting a chastisement so lucrative to themselves) were perhaps of as tainted a complexion as the delinquents. Mr. Anson was not displeased to have caught the Chinese in this dilemma; he entertained himself for some time with their perplexity, rejecting their money with scorn, appearing inexorable to their prayers, and giving out that the thief should certainly be shot; but as he then foresaw that he should be forced to take shelter in their ports a second time, when the influence he might hereby acquire over the magistrates would be of great service to him, he at length permitted himself to be persuaded, and as a favour released his prisoner; though not till the mandarine had collected and returned all that had been stolen from the officer, even to the minutest trifle.
中国人道德最败坏的时期就是1949年到1979年之间,主要拜毛泽东所赐。共产党鼓吹做好事不求回报的结果就是没人愿意做好事。
ab50322 我希望我能做个真正坦荡真诚的人
现在有什么资格和过去比? 现在学雷锋就是不理解的神经病行为了,是家里有矿。   另外古代人是非常相信善有善报,恶有恶报的佛教因果报应和轮回转世的, 这样的人不敢像现在的人一样没有底线的纵情纵欲,损人利己。  
   另外没有共产党之前老百姓是没有这么道德败坏的,中国古代最奸诈残忍的那一批人只是集中在宫廷一个小圈子里, 而共产党是把自己那一套废除人类道德的马克思学说强制给所有老百姓洗脑,让所有老百姓干那些打阶级父母,同室操戈,母女告发,父子相残的畜生事。 
  现在的中国人包括国外很多人,打着追求自由的口号不知道干了多少以自我为中心,不顾他人感受,任性妄为的事。  
  有啥资格和过去比?
读经济学人自然 新注册用户 (待解除) 恒道不知|Economist「经济学人」文章探讨
所谓道德,在中国地区,越来越是一种生存策略的直接衍生物。
按照演义的说法,现在是:

世风日下,豺狼当道

每当改朝换代都这样
sd45812119 反共首先要搞清团结对象
穷生奸计,富长良心。生产力达不到谈道德都多余,马斯洛需求了解一下?就匪的治国方式流氓加文盲能好才怪了,🕷️就爱搞托古yy那一套。
道德水平随着经济水平水涨船高,反之亦然。
所谓道德,都有标价。

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