【分享】一篇講鴉片戰爭的很好的回答

原帖來自 reddit 的 r/AskHistorians 板塊,這是一個很著名的歷史學板塊,裏面有很多專業的歷史學家來爲小白解答各種問題。問題是問對於鴉片戰爭, Was there any attempt made to morally justify this attack, domestically or internationally?


https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/cggi24/how_did_the_opium_wars_happen_why_didnt_anyone/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x



There are three key points that I need to get across about the British side of the Opium War (here, I'm only addressing the Opium War of 1839-42, though if you'd like elaboration for the Arrow War of 1856-60, I will happily oblige):

  1. The British decision to go to war in 1839/40 was highly controversial;
  2. The controversy was, broadly speaking, not over whether Britain should fight a war to defend the opium trade, but whether the defence of opium smuggling was actually a casus belli or a war aim; because
  3. Opium and its export was broadly recognised as a moral evil.

I've covered the broad origins of the war, contextualised alongside parallel developments in Central Asia, in this past answer, but in short, Lin Zexu's opium suppression campaign in 1838/9 had culminated in the encirclement of the western merchant quarter in Canton until the merchants divested themselves of their opium stockpiles, which would be destroyed in Fumun in June 1839. Convinced that Lin would take more serious military action to achieve his aims, his British counterpart Charles Elliott guaranteed reimbursement for the merchants, to the tune of 2 million pounds. The Whig government, which had not ordered this course of action, opted to seize on the war as a pretext for obtaining an indemnity to cover these costs.

That last part deserves a little bit more attention. On 29 August 1839, Foreign Secretary Lord Palmerston received a communication from Elliott, written in April, calling for war against the Qing in response to Lin's provocations and divulging his guarantee of reimbursement to the opium smugglers. Following a meeting on 27 September with William Jardine, the recently retired co-founder of the Jardine Matheson opium and tea company, Palmerston and seven other members of the cabinet, including the Prime Minister Lord Melbourne and Secretary at War Sir Thomas Macaulay, met at Windsor Castle on 30 September and 1 October to discuss matters of foreign policy. The products of the discussion would be as follows: firstly, that neither the government nor the East India Company would be footing the 2 million pound bill; secondly, that as a consequence Britain should go to war with China to obtain the funds as an indemnity; thirdly, that the cause of the war was the affront to national honour caused by Lin; and finally, that given the likely poor reception of the news in England, it would be necessary to secure the involvement of the East India Company's military forces first and foremost.

The rather obvious problem with all this was that this was an internal government decision, made without consulting Parliament. It was recognised during the meeting that the Commons was almost certain to object to the Whigs' decision to prosecute a war, which they most certainly did, or at least, they did once they found out for sure, months down the line. Even so, the rumour mills turned and it was pretty clear by the beginning of 1840 that something was happening. Alongside this was a significant moral objection to the (in fact already ongoing) war on the basis of opium's immorality, with The Times running pieces all throughout the autumn and winter of 1839 protesting against the ongoing opium trade. In mid-March, news that a flotilla of warships had indeed sailed out to China prompted the first major outcry, which culminated on 7 April with a motion of no confidence in Lord Melbourne's government, tabled by Whig-turned-Tory Sir James Graham.

What had helped Graham significantly was that the Whig government was in an extremely precarious position following a series of political crises earlier in 1839, known collectively as the Bedchamber Crisis. Lord Melbourne had signalled his intent to resign in May, and so Queen Victoria attempted to get the Duke of Wellington (who had been Prime Minister twice before) to form a government, but he declined, leaving it to his counterpart in the Commons, Robert Peel. Peel agreed on condition that the Queen remove some of her Whig Ladies of the Bedchamber, to which Victoria did not agree, leading to Melbourne having no choice but to stay on. The Whig government that was challenged in April 1840 was therefore one which, from appearances, had not itself wanted to continue existing, but had been compelled to remain in existence thanks to the personal whims of the Queen. Britain was not, at the time, a country with a political consensus.

During the no confidence motion of 7 April, the Tory objections included the following salient points:

  1. That going to war against such a beacon of 'civilisation' was inherently objectionable;
  2. That going to war with China would jeopardise British state finances by cutting, perhaps permanently, Britain's tea trade, duties on which contributed around 8% (~3.7 million pounds) of government revenues;
  3. That the opium trade was immoral and the Whigs were fighting to perpetuate it (notably, Graham did not include this in his opening salvo); and
  4. That Britain was responsible for creating the opium trade in the first place and so had no legal right to demand compensation from China.

The Whig response was not unified. Some, such as Macaulay, objected to the idea that the venerability of Chinese civilisation was worthy of respect rather than ridicule; some that opium's harmfulness was exaggerated. The key thing, though, would ultimately be the question of what the war was about. George Staunton, probably the most experienced China hand in the House of Commons, was a fierce opponent of the opium trade, but nonetheless supported war on the basis that Lin Zexu's actions constituted an act of flagrant disregard for the established conventions of the Canton System, and so British national honour would have to be defended. In this case, honour was not some ephemeral concept, but referred to something quite specific – the willingness to honour agreements. For Staunton, opium did serve as an inciting incident, but that was irrelevant to the matter of honour. We may never know how many votes he swayed, but for the pro-war position every vote counted, as Melbourne won out by just 9 votes. Ironically, he refused to honour his earlier statement that he would resign if he achieved a majority of less than 10. The war went ahead.

Attempts to defend opium as innocuous were generally in the minority. Most agreed that selling opium was very much a Bad Thing, and the Tories gained significant political capital in the coming months as a result of continuing to cast the war as one over opium. Indeed, the phrase 'Opium War' was coined by Tory supporters to attack the Whigs' reasons for going to war, and incidentally did not enter Chinese discourse until the 1920s. And, during the war, it was decided that the legitimation of the opium trade would not be part of British war goals. For one, it would be politically hypocritical for either party (the Tories ousted the Whigs in early 1841) to do so: the Whigs given how much they had denied that opium was important, the Tories given how much they had blasted the Whigs on the basis that they were fighting to preserve the opium trade. To quote Stephen Platt, 'The lasting encouragement the war gave to the opium trade, which rightfully cemented its status as an "opium war", was its effect but had never been its intention.' The Treaty of Nanjing, signed in 1842, made no mention of opium except naming it as the destroyed commodity for which an indemnity payment was required for compensation, and trade in it remained illegal in China until 1858, when among other things the fiscal disaster of the Taiping War made the taxing of opium an increasingly tempting prospect.

Internationally, there was some degree of support and some degree of objection. John Quincy Adams agreed with the Whig casting of the war as one over national prestige rather than opium, tracing its origins back to Lord Macartney's refusal to kowtow before the Qianlong Emperor in 1793. The French Catholic missionaries in China deplored Britain's part in expanding the opium trade. And in the long run, there was no small amount of regret over the war – some was more specifically as regards the fact that Britain had chosen to embark on it in the first place, based on some critiques written during the early part of the Arrow War in 1857-8, some regarded the end of the old Canton System.

In the end, the war, and the trade in opium, would never be justified on moral grounds. Cynical pragmatism would be the only effective means by which the opium trade and military action in support of it were upheld. Sure, the advocates might say, opium was a moral evil, but it was an inevitable one – if Britain pulled out of the trade, someone else, like France or Russia, would fill the gap. So, if opium was going to be sold anyway, Britain may as well be the ones to profit off it. Sometimes the argument was simple deflection – 'who sells opium' would be answered with 'who smokes it?' At other times it would be, as noted before, the denial that opium had sufficiently harmful effects to warrant significant worry. And, of course, sometimes it was denied (rightly or wrongly) that whatever war was being prosecuted had nothing to do with opium at all. Never was it argued that the endeavour was morally just.
6
分享 2020-01-04

49 个评论

谢谢你分享这篇分析。

就是不知道这里有多少葱友能耐心看完、看懂
一個港青 🤬不友善用户
內容大意:鴉片只是導火索,不是主因(就像Sarajevo的兩顆子彈)
主因可能是維護英國國家專嚴(我堂堂大英的貨你也敢沒收?)
打的大清,和我沒什麼關係。
类似的分析文章看过很多了(中文代表作《天朝的崩溃——鸦片战争再研究》)。其实『鸦片战争』这个名字本身并不完全准确,中英战争虽因鸦片贸易纠纷而起,但是冲突爆发的根源是英国人的通商权益和英国商人的人身安全与利益得不到保护,另一种叫法『通商战争』更贴切一些。
真的很讽刺,从文章看战争的主因就是觉得中国政府视条约体系如废纸。对于中国来说,可以说香港的割让其实是对其不懂得国际条约体系规则的代价,结果收回香港后立马又现了原形。
整个鸦片战争的实质可以用蒋廷黻的一句话总结:『战争之前我们不给他们平等,战争之后他们不给我们平等。』
远东的土人没有契约精神和平等观念也不是一天两天了,倒是洋鬼子总是抹黑自己的祖宗
打的大清,和我沒什麼關係。

你太爷爷应该是大清子民。
真的很讽刺,从文章看战争的主因就是觉得中国政府视条约体系如废纸。对于中国来说,可以说香港的割让其实是...

古代是相信的,但刘邦开了个不好的头,糊弄了项羽,还杀了人家。后人效法之。庞统把人骗来喝酒全杀了。司马懿更不用说了。后来被五胡乱华都是自己玩火上身。你不团结,别人团结,你就去死了。我只赞叹上帝设计的平衡如此奇妙。
轻关易道,通商宽衣。不如改成宽衣战争,这样这场战争在中国就变成违禁词语,再也没有支蛆敢说了
古代是相信的,但刘邦开了个不好的头,糊弄了项羽,还杀了人家。后人效法之。庞统把人骗来喝酒全杀了。司马...
项羽配笑刘邦吗,项羽不满刘邦先入关就要耍赖,义帝说如约,项羽还硬把刘邦封到汉中,后来连义帝都敢阴杀之
你太爷爷应该是大清子民。

那又怎麼樣?so what
所以我每次都在說這是一場實體上的貿易戰,清政府應賠錢給英商,並應放下身段,跟他國平等交流。可惜經常因此被粉紅圍攻……
>>所以我每次都在說這是一場實體上的貿易戰,清政府應賠錢給英商,並應放下身段,跟他國平等交流。可惜經常因...


大清有国家主权的,有权制定自己的贸易政策,与法律,拿枪逼人家何来平等,别被平等主义洗脑了
那個時代.....恐怕沒有毒品這個概念!
鴉片不過是商品..................................貿易戰真阿~哈哈
>>大清有国家主权的,有权制定自己的贸易政策,与法律,拿枪逼人家何来平等,别被平等主义洗脑了

話說在過去納德是有主權制定迫害同性戀者的法律,但現今沒人認為其迫害是正確的,因此在國家侵害人權的情況下,主權這個觀念是沒有價值的。
再說一個簡單例子,别人家的兒子天天瘋狂被打,那麼這個時候能否以這是其家事為由不去干預?
大清侵犯英國子民的私有財產權,又要英國賠給商人,而不是自己給,干預他國的財產權。這個時候主權已經不再重要了。
说一千道一万还是一句话,支那人不守规矩,杀杀杀,一个不留
>>話說在過去納德是有主權制定迫害同性戀者的法律,但現今沒人認為其迫害是正確的,因此在國家侵害人權的情況...

搞笑,贩卖鸦片本来就是违法的,清朝查禁鸦片英国人知道的,只不过英国人认为钱能搞定一切,而且拉不少官员下水,以为禁令是废纸,没在意的。美国也有不禁大麻的,你去不禁大麻的地方买大麻可以带到禁大麻的地方的吗?美国连州政府都是制定禁令为啥清政府不能的,清朝政府生产力不足就想办法提高生产力,中国历来如此,不像西方国家到处殖民掠夺,到底是谁野蛮。英国贸易损失就卖鸦片害人,还有脑残这么舔英国的,也是无语😶
>>搞笑,贩卖鸦片本来就是违法的,清朝查禁鸦片英国人知道的,只不过英国人认为钱能搞定一切,而且拉不少官员...

由於當時清政府積弱,且鴉片貿易盛行已久,故沒有一個英國商人會認為清國會硬起來。而當時鴉片在英美是合法的。
「英國希望繼《南京條約》後簽訂更多條約,最終開放全中國讓外國通商,這主要為了英國的利益。但同時也能令中國和世界受惠」
>>搞笑,贩卖鸦片本来就是违法的,清朝查禁鸦片英国人知道的,只不过英国人认为钱能搞定一切,而且拉不少官员...

你才搞笑,鴉片從明朝開始就在皇帝和貴族階級流行起來了,東南亞藩屬國的貢品裡就有鴉片。福壽膏聽過嗎?這就是萬曆起的名字。清朝鴉片清廷自己也有用。大家都知道上流社會的行為非常容易影響平民,你以為為什麼平民百姓都那麼愛吸鴉片?英國商人看一堆貴族在抽,哪裡想得到皇家抽的叫福壽膏,你英國賣的叫大煙,福壽膏合法大煙非法。這種中國特色法律英國要從何知道和遵守起?
看完全文,貌似英国人自己都觉得以鸦片为借口其实也不是那么道德
>>你才搞笑,鴉片從明朝開始就在皇帝和貴族階級流行起來了,東南亞藩屬國的貢品裡就有鴉片。福壽膏聽過嗎?這...
https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E9%B8%A6%E7%89%87%E5%8F%B2
维基百科中国鸦片史,中国早在1639年明确把鸦片列为违禁品了,而且清朝有明确的禁令,明确表示查禁鸦片了,这点中国鸦片史也有指出的,鸦片传入的时候不知道其害,后来知道了不行吗
>>由於當時清政府積弱,且鴉片貿易盛行已久,故沒有一個英國商人會認為清國會硬起來。而當時鴉片在英美是合法...
英美是不禁止吸食鸦片,但禁止贩卖的,当时英国议会,女王没人认为鸦片贸易是合法的,贸易这种东西不能强求的,你总不能强迫穆斯林买猪肉吧,以武力迫使的条约没有公平性可言的
>>英美是不禁止吸食鸦片,但禁止贩卖的,当时英国议会,女王没人认为鸦片贸易是合法的,贸易这种东西不能强求...


當年英女皇的確是把這當作正當貿易
她稱"中國發生了一些事件,導致我國臣民與該國的商業往來中斷。我將繼續認真注視這個深深影響我國臣民利益和王室尊嚴的問題"
另按你的說法,日本投降乃至世上各大戰爭後條約也是不公平的 。在戰爭後簽訂的條約中尋找公平性是否搞錯些什麼?
>>https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B...

這鴉片禁令有禁到皇帝和王公貴族家嗎?道光咸豐皇帝自己就愛抽福壽膏,底下官兵也愛抽福壽膏。走私鴉片這種事情沒人做腳英國哪賣得進來呀?
       这就很奇怪了,一些所谓的学者认为鸦片战争完全是两国之间的贸易争端,跟鸦片无关,这些人难道没有查询英国方面的史料吗。
      日本是侵略战争失败被迫接受条约的完全是咎由自取,跟英国开军舰去迫使其他国家签约不一样的。
>>這鴉片禁令有禁到皇帝和王公貴族家嗎?道光咸豐皇帝自己就愛抽福壽膏,底下官兵也愛抽福壽膏。走私鴉片這種...

禁令就是禁令,只要对社会有益就没错的,那些王公贵族利用自己的特权获取鸦片是他们的问题,不是鸦片禁令的问题,纠结这个有意思吗?
>>這鴉片禁令有禁到皇帝和王公貴族家嗎?道光咸豐皇帝自己就愛抽福壽膏,底下官兵也愛抽福壽膏。走私鴉片這種...

1907年中英达成禁烟协议,联合禁烟,说明都知道鸦片的危害,禁止对社会有严重危害的东西有错吗?
>>       这就很奇怪了,一些所谓的学者认为鸦片战争完全是两国之间的贸易争端,跟鸦片无关,这些人难...


真的求求你多读点书 云土知道是什么东西不? 红土知道是什么东西不? 清帝国花大量白银进口洋烟搞到外汇流失 所以要禁洋烟种土烟 让林则徐缴洋商的货放到现在就类似搞贸易壁垒反倾销 要是不给鸦片贸易 我种来干叽霸? 云南四川贵州的农民都是弱智?
再者 谁告诉你条约是要公平的? 是你幼稚园老师吗? 条约是双方妥协出来的结果 一定会有人赚有人蚀 然而条约本身说什么根本无所谓 重点是“守约” 条约怎么写你就怎么做 你赚也要守约蚀也要守约 不然信用破产再没人跟你合作你连蚀的资格都没有
如果你要否定旧的条约 就要再跟对方argue再定新的条约 argue不出结果那就再打过 打到有结果为止 推翻旧条约是建立在对新条约的遵守上 而不是扯什么主观的公不公平 按你的例子用武力可以逼穆斯林买猪肉 对 没错 就是可以 如果对某个人来说逼穆斯林买猪肉带来的收益值得他付出让穆斯林妥协的成本 那当然没问题 同样 如果穆斯林觉得反抗的收益大过妥协 那他们自然会反抗 1857年印度土兵不是已经亲身证明给你看了? 觉得条约不妥 签的时候argue不过别人 打又打不过别人 签完又不遵守在那搞小动作 然后你说是别人对你不公平? 可快拉叽霸倒吧
>>1907年中英达成禁烟协议,联合禁烟,说明都知道鸦片的危害,禁止对社会有严重危害的东西有错吗?


到现在你还在扯什么危不危害 你以为把货物里边的鸦片换成其他 同样是洋货倾销外汇流失 清帝国就不会不守约缴别人货了? 英帝国就不会来维护国民生命财产了? 避开作为起因的“不守约” 扯开话题到货物内容有没有危害有没有违法 以此证明都是鬼佬坏是鬼佬害我大清大清被干烂都是鬼佬的错 你讲这么多废话不就是想达到这个目的? 真的多读点书吧拜托
>>搞笑,贩卖鸦片本来就是违法的,清朝查禁鸦片英国人知道的,只不过英国人认为钱能搞定一切,而且拉不少官员...


不殖民掠奪? 三征高麗是甚麼
還是中國到打別人 別人不能打我?
搞清楚没有,清廷已经打算十年内把鸦片彻底解决,只是南京条约一签,禁烟运动失败了,才采取扶植本土鸦片止血的,不搞清因果关系就瞎逼逼,有意思吗
>>不殖民掠奪? 三征高麗是甚麼還是中國到打別人 別人不能打我?
边患懂不,高勾丽没事边境瞎转悠,抢吃抢喝,你不烦吗?如果高勾丽老实本分杨广干嘛兴兵啊,当时突厥就够老实的,杨广没兴趣打他
>>不殖民掠奪? 三征高麗是甚麼還是中國到打別人 別人不能打我?

你去读读君主论,马基雅维利主义者提倡留地不留人,沙俄在远东地区犯下的罪行就是一种典型的马基雅维利主义,为达目的不折手段,西方国家很多君主都信奉这套东西,真以为西方有所谓的文明吗
>>搞清楚没有,清廷已经打算十年内把鸦片彻底解决,只是南京条约一签,禁烟运动失败了,才采取扶植本土鸦片止...


行了行了 早在1830年就已经大规模产本土鸦片了 进口鸦片又不是清英战争之后才开始 庇护鸦片贸易从税收谋利的 跟你口中想禁鸦片的 根本就是同一帮人 怎么可能彻底解决断自己财路? 你活在梦里吗? 就林则徐一个呆逼真以为清帝国有能力且有必要禁烟 原本跟英帝国大家只眼开只眼闭的暧昧局面被打破 不就原形毕露咯 贸易壁垒就贸易壁垒 还什么本土鸦片止血 承认清帝国就是一帮自私卑劣没信用的贱畜这个事实对你来说很难吗?
>>你去读读君主论,马基雅维利主义者提倡留地不留人,沙俄在远东地区犯下的罪行就是一种典型的马基雅维利主义...


看 原形毕露了 你要踩鬼佬就直球踩就行了 干嘛绕那么多弯呢? 又禁鸦片对社会有利又十年彻底解决鸦片 你是想转移多少话题发多少神论啊? 在座各位肯定不会有鬼佬不用担心冒犯别人 对自己诚实点不好吗?
刚刚才注意到  这个挖坟贴的还说是洋商不守规矩  主动给官员贿赂  拜托  从乾隆禁鸦片开始  问鸦片商要保护费已经是各地官员最重要的创收手段了  而且是黑钱不用打税可以自己独吞  刚好英帝国内部不支持鸦片贸易  商人走私自己负责  关税以外还要各路打点也就算了  居然还要赖人家是主动贿赂的  我今天算是长见识了
>>搞清楚没有,清廷已经打算十年内把鸦片彻底解决,只是南京条约一签,禁烟运动失败了,才采取扶植本土鸦片止...

喔,所以第一次鴉片戰爭是道光時候打的,然後道光吸鴉片,咸豐也吸鴉片,慈禧也吸鴉片,然後一直到清朝結束後婉容還在吸鴉片。清廷的十年還真長啊!
另外英國鴉片不是被本土福壽膏打敗的,是英國在印度種茶成功不需要再靠賣鴉片達成收支平衡自然不賣了。
還是這句話,鴉片戰爭應該改名,明明就是紅茶戰爭
任何人擋在英國人和茶葉中間的,從來都沒好下場。茶癮上來戒斷反應全開的英國根本就是神經病,這一點包括中國、日本和美國在內,認識英國好多年的國家們幾乎都能做證

再說,如果中國沒有虐待使團,會有這麼多亂七八糟的事嗎?
賣鴉片說到底也是英國人不想去買茶葉的時候不順手賣一點什麼回本,而中國自稱地大物博什麼也不想買而已
>>喔,所以第一次鴉片戰爭是道光時候打的,然後道光吸鴉片,咸豐也吸鴉片,慈禧也吸鴉片,然後一直到清朝結束...

呵呵,不是一般无脑,连最基础的逻辑都不懂,鸦片禁令主要是鸦片腐蚀国力,造成劳动力损失,军队战斗力下降,损害身体健康,进口洋鸦片造成白银外流。作为清朝最高统治者查禁鸦片有错吗,清廷本来打算十年内根除鸦片的,但是第一次鸦片战争失败,禁烟已经无法进行了,所谓才打算扶植本土鸦片的。清廷一直有努力禁烟,到1907年与英国达成协议,逐年减少对华鸦片输出。
最为最高统治者,他们维护社会的正常秩序有何不可。
那些禁毒的警察说不定也吸毒,不能说明禁毒这件事有错,跟无脑粉红一样胡搅蛮缠,这是最后一条回覆了。
       我一直在说鸦片这件事的,哪有转移话题啊,自己无脑转移话题怪谁啊,只有傻子相信那些政客是好人。
       好好补补历史吧,被人洗脑了还沾沾自喜的,我只是讲清朝对鸦片的态度。
        道光皇帝打算禁烟的,不过鸦片战争失败了,禁烟也失败了,不得不采取补救措施,但是清朝一直都有努力禁烟的。最为最高统治者有义务这么做的,这样有错吗?清朝到1907年与英国达成协议,逐步减少对华输入鸦片。
       道光皇帝是吸鸦片,这件事是清朝王室内部的事,与国家的事无关,别把某些人的个人行为与国家政策混同。国家政策只要是为了维护社会正常秩序,没错的。
       看过迪迦奥特曼没有啊,里面有一集,地球护卫队也陷入怪兽制造的迷幻中不能自拔,这也不能说明他们协助迪迦奥特曼打怪兽有错的
>>行了行了 早在1830年就已经大规模产本土鸦片了 进口鸦片又不是清英战争之后才开始 庇护鸦片贸易从税...

鸦片贸易正常化是天津条约的规定的,鸦片贸易收的税比鸦片带来的危害不值一提,收税也是鸦片贸易查禁失败后的正常止血,还有鼓励本土种植鸦片来抵制洋货。两害相权取其轻。
尽然为贩毒辩护也够无脑难怪世风日下,清廷到1907年与英国达成协议,减少鸦片贸易的,说明清廷一直有努力禁烟,对鸦片危害认识也到位的。
鸦片只是英国对外掠夺的一部分,别人不买你的货就去卖违禁品,有何道义可言。金三角知道不,各国一种有努力解决鸦片的,清朝这么做有错吗。
      不承认事实,只发泄自己所谓情绪,跟清末那些搞坏中国的革命党没有区别,最后一条回复了,好自为之。
>>鸦片贸易正常化是天津条约的规定的,鸦片贸易收的税比鸦片带来的危害不值一提,收税也是鸦片贸易查禁失败后...


我现在已经怀疑你不是没读过书 是压根连中文都看不懂
1. 从乾隆禁鸦片开始 各地官员就有理由收鸦片商保护费 这保护费是黑钱不用打税 鬼佬也收农民也收 真正的纸面上的关税不过是九牛一毛 什么查禁失败收税止血只是你可怜的意淫
2. 除了林则徐从来就没有任何一个人想禁烟断自己财路 天下是皇帝的天下 关官员捞钱什么事? 关农民谋生什么事? 而林则徐也并不是旨在禁烟本身 早在1830年就已经遍地鸦片没农民种粮食了
“鄙意亦以内地栽种罂粟于事无妨。所恨者内地之嗜洋烟而不嗜土烟,若内地果有一种芙蓉,胜于洋贩,则孰不愿买贱而食?无如知此味者,无不舍近图远,不能使如绍兴之美醍,湖广之锭烟,内地自相流通,如人一身血脉贯注,何碍之有?”
什么认识鸦片危害 那也都是你可怜的意淫
3. 先有林则徐威胁义律 断水断粮扣留商人货尽没官人即正法 后有耆英叶名琛各种理由不履约让鬼佬入城 从1840年到1900年 哪次捱鬼佬毒打不是一帮贱畜纯自己犯贱? 哪次跟鸦片本身有扯上关系?
4. “清廷一直有努力禁烟,对鸦片危害认识也到位的” 还等到你1907年? 再过几年帝国都要没了你还一叽霸直努叽霸力啊? 这种弱智言论是人能说出来的? 承认清帝国就是一帮自私卑劣没信用的贱畜 就这么难吗?
5. 不读书就算了 起码要讲点事实逻辑 连当时的农民都知道满人都是脓包 主动给鬼佬带路卖蔬果卖鸡鸭求得打赏 为了拐着弯踩鬼佬维护你精神满清遗民那点可怜的大国威仪 又条约公不公平又毒品危害 就是装作看不到贱畜们扭曲如蛆虫的丑相 你都已经不知羞耻为何物了 我还能说什么呢
>>      不承认事实,只发泄自己所谓情绪,跟清末那些搞坏中国的革命党没有区别,最后一条回复了,好自...


你甚至连不承认事实这句话都要copy我 然后来了句革命党搞坏中国(?) 这就是你过来挖坟贴得出的结论? 说句精神满清遗民都算是高看你了 真的 去读点书吧 不是为你 是为那些看到你发言的人不用那么辣眼睛 就当做善事吧拜托
>>道光皇帝是吸鸦片,这件事是清朝王室内部的事,与国家的事无关,别把某些人的个人行为与国家政策混同。国家政策只要是为了维护社会正常秩序,没错的


蛤所以不去改變整個國家上下交相賊整天收保護費收紅包的壞習慣,反而去欺負鴉片商(這些鴉片商還供應鴉片給皇室)就是正確的政策喔?不愧是善於維護統治者的OO人呢XD
>>蛤所以不去改變整個國家上下交相賊整天收保護費收紅包的壞習慣,反而去欺負鴉片商(這些鴉片商還供應鴉片給...

我没说清王室吸鸦片是正确的,当时制定禁烟政策,并积极执行是没错的啊,清朝当时已经烂了,吏治腐败,整个社会糜烂,享乐成风确实有问题的,当清朝确实制定政策进行整顿了,道光吸鸦片当时也被人训斥了,说明清王室也知道这么不好的,鸦片毒害国民,照成巨大经济损失,听之任之难道说明政府爱民,也是搞笑。
我只是就说了清政府的禁烟政策,你们这些人瞎想随你们吧。你们心疼毒贩这种圣母行为也够无语的
>>当时制定禁烟政策,并积极执行是没错的啊


制定禁菸政策(O)
積極執行(X)

你以為官府帶頭收保護費都是在收搞笑喔?林則徐去查緝鴉片被那些地方官當作海綿寶寶的紀錄你也沒看喔?
要不英国人也会不当回事,英国佬不傻,肯定都上下打点好了

要发言请先登录注册

要发言请先登录注册

发起人

状态

  • 最新活动: 2020-11-04
  • 浏览: 15321